Great review! I too have noticed the hipocrosy by Bell and other emergent guys. They are very quick to slam others for using "modern" marketing techniques but are also quick to use it themselves. It seems to tell others that its okay only if they (emergents) are using those techniques. Yes the publisher might have put it on there, but Mr. Bell, with his popularity and such, should have put a hold on the book till they took it off, he has a say in the process. Way to go Bell! Way to be a hipocrite!
Blessings,
A review by Dale Van Dyke with portions of the book critiqued may be found at http://www.reformation21.org/Past_Issues/February_2006/Shelf_Life_/Shelf_Life_/148/vobId__2030/pm__338/
Yeah. I'm pretty sure Zondervan is in charge of that. My personal qualms and issues with them aside, they are one of the biggest publishers in Christian literature, and they will act that way. They hire people to do this stuff. People that went to school for marketing. They are very likely not emergent. Maybe not Christian at all. Their job isn't authenticity, or any other values we might have. No major publishers publish a book without making the author look impressive.. it makes them look impressive! That's common sense.
An author sends the manuscript to the publisher, he or she doesn't design the covers, or the text on the cover that you reviewed well. Sometimes he or she doesn't even see that cover until it is printed. That's why they pay graphic designers and marketing people. Rob Bell is neither. Marketing people do.. guess what.. marketing. They go to school to learn how to make things look impressive. Would you fight a publisher just to make them take off a description from the back cover, even if you did see it before it was printed? It's not wisdom.
When you are in any profession, you learn to pick your battles. A paragraph on the back cover, that to most people it should be common sense that he didn't write, is not a battle Rob Bell chose to pick. I wouldn't have either. I feel that your shortcomings are with Zondervan's marketing team, not with the company itself or with Rob Bell.
Would someone who has never heard of Rob Bell buy the book if it didn't have at least a little something about the author? A title like Velvet Elvis alone would make most people look, but wouldd they buy if there was nothing about Rob's credibility. Those of you who speak of hypocrisy should examine their own lives. Who are you to judge? I didn't know that God was writing comments for the Ooze. Those who are the first to point out that someone is a hypocrite are generally always the biggest of them all. I can think of a better H word that would describe Rob Bell..........................Human.
I too have really found Rob Bell's book and teaching to be a breath of fresh air. He teachings have impacted the way I understand the gospel in various ways. As a potential church planter, I too was a little bothered by the quote cited concerning marketing and starting a church. Knowing (the whole story) makes me see it in a different light. I knew that 1,000 people don't just "show up," not matter who you are. Most church starters I know live in the real world of beginning with 50-100 people in their first service and they cannot afford to say phooy with marketing. They need to get the word out about their ministry with flyers, ads, billboards, etc etc. I am not talking about slick marketing techniques, just getting the word out because most of us are not in the situation Rob Bell was/is in. The book can leave you with some false expectations about church planting.
"in the real world of beginning with 50-100 people in their first service"
in my real world, our first service had about 10 people. ;)
I have no idea how many people or how much money was spent to start Mars Hill, but I do know that neither should matter to us. God uses different people in different ways to spread His kingdom. Our comments shouldn't be about tearing down what God has done, but rather praising the fact that 1,000 plus people are connected to God and growing in His presence. If our purpose as church planters is to be the next Mars Hill, then we missed our calling, and are trying to live Rob's. If you want to us Marketing then use Marketing, but don't fault Rob/Mars Hill because they don't. Has Rob's fame spread? yes, but look at his current speaking tour. The one in which he is taking no money to do, but rather donating. Maybe that should say something about his character and what he is really all about.
Well, I didn't really make this comment to argue with anyone, but since it seems I have been "called on the carpet" for "tearing down" so I will respond briefly. First, it was and is not my intention to tear down Rob or Mars Hill. I began by saying how helpful and inspiring I have found Rob's teachings and book. My simple point was that in the book, Rob doesn't give us much background on how his church got started and to me, gave the impression that they just started and 1,000 people showed up and then makes the strong statement that church marketing makes him sick! My reaction was that for potential church planters, this can either lead to false expectations that 1,000 people will show up at their first service with absolutely know advertisement, etc and that advertising your church is wrong! I am not faulting Rob for using Marketing, I am just concerned that the idea is that no one should use it according to Bell. I personally am thrilled about the ministry of Mars HIll and don't doubt his character and what he is doing there.
I like Velvet Elvis, and I heard Bell speak at Fuller. I appreciate his message. But I'm glad Bell got rid of the bleached white Billy Idol hair. It's just a little too Marketing-Cool for me. We all need to be guard that our new discernment for what is good or true or worthwhile isn't the ALmighty "Cool."
First of all, as mentioned above, book publishers control title, cover, and marketing. It's the publisher's book to sell, not the author's. Therefore, the publisher has complete control over those things. In rare cases, the author can tell the publisher what to do but, as a rule, the publisher is boss. Don't fault Rob Bell for the marketing of this awesome book. That's ridiculous.
Second, isn't evangelism marketing? What's wrong with being creative and trying to get people to read a great book about authentic Christianity. I don't get it. You whine when people don't flesh out what Christ commanded and you whine when people like Zondervan and Rob Bell are trying to get people on board as a Christ-follower. Come on, people!
Third, I've noticed several articles on theooze with poor spelling and typos. Doesn't anyone proofread anymore? If you're going to write an article and get people to take you seriously, make it look professional. A schoolteacher wrote this article? Joel, you should have had someone in the English department proofread it before you submitted it.
Gene
first, God bless you all and let's all try to remember why it is we are here in the 1st place, to bring God's kingdom here to earth, let's not get caught up in such trivial stuff, such as the back cover of Velvet Elvis, and the info, he gave or didn't give about church planting....all that is irrelevant. The book was about inviting people to come JUMP with JESUS. I liked someone else's comment about Rob Bell being human, let's not forget that. I agree with some of the others, that Rob has an incredible calling on his life and praise God for that. There is always going to be one thing that someone might not agree with us or someone else on, but, to turn away from that person because of one thing is like denouncing all the good that they have said....I hope and pray that God isn't as critical and harsh as we humans are because it that were true, we have all screwed up and we are all getting turned away in the end.
It's interesting to note that the Paper back re-issue of the book dropped the "fastest growing churches in American history" blurb off the back cover.
Joel K
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Great review! I too have noticed the hipocrosy by Bell and other emergent guys. They are very quick to slam others for using "modern" marketing techniques but are also quick to use it themselves. It seems to tell others that its okay only if they (emergents) are using those techniques. Yes the publisher might have put it on there, but Mr. Bell, with his popularity and such, should have put a hold on the book till they took it off, he has a say in the process. Way to go Bell! Way to be a hipocrite!
Blessings,
Posted by Truth Seeker | Posted at 08/11/2006 6:21 AMA review by Dale Van Dyke with portions of the book critiqued may be found at http://www.reformation21.org/Past_Issues/February_2006/Shelf_Life_/Shelf_Life_/148/vobId__2030/pm__338/ Posted by Watercation | Posted at 08/11/2006 7:29 AM
Yeah. I'm pretty sure Zondervan is in charge of that. My personal qualms and issues with them aside, they are one of the biggest publishers in Christian literature, and they will act that way. They hire people to do this stuff. People that went to school for marketing. They are very likely not emergent. Maybe not Christian at all. Their job isn't authenticity, or any other values we might have. No major publishers publish a book without making the author look impressive.. it makes them look impressive! That's common sense.
An author sends the manuscript to the publisher, he or she doesn't design the covers, or the text on the cover that you reviewed well. Sometimes he or she doesn't even see that cover until it is printed. That's why they pay graphic designers and marketing people. Rob Bell is neither. Marketing people do.. guess what.. marketing. They go to school to learn how to make things look impressive. Would you fight a publisher just to make them take off a description from the back cover, even if you did see it before it was printed? It's not wisdom.
When you are in any profession, you learn to pick your battles. A paragraph on the back cover, that to most people it should be common sense that he didn't write, is not a battle Rob Bell chose to pick. I wouldn't have either. I feel that your shortcomings are with Zondervan's marketing team, not with the company itself or with Rob Bell.
Posted by jon | Posted at 08/11/2006 9:31 AMWould someone who has never heard of Rob Bell buy the book if it didn't have at least a little something about the author? A title like Velvet Elvis alone would make most people look, but wouldd they buy if there was nothing about Rob's credibility. Those of you who speak of hypocrisy should examine their own lives. Who are you to judge? I didn't know that God was writing comments for the Ooze. Those who are the first to point out that someone is a hypocrite are generally always the biggest of them all. I can think of a better H word that would describe Rob Bell..........................Human. Posted by Sullivan | Posted at 08/11/2006 12:20 PM
I too have really found Rob Bell's book and teaching to be a breath of fresh air. He teachings have impacted the way I understand the gospel in various ways. As a potential church planter, I too was a little bothered by the quote cited concerning marketing and starting a church. Knowing (the whole story) makes me see it in a different light. I knew that 1,000 people don't just "show up," not matter who you are. Most church starters I know live in the real world of beginning with 50-100 people in their first service and they cannot afford to say phooy with marketing. They need to get the word out about their ministry with flyers, ads, billboards, etc etc. I am not talking about slick marketing techniques, just getting the word out because most of us are not in the situation Rob Bell was/is in. The book can leave you with some false expectations about church planting. Posted by clint | Posted at 08/11/2006 3:10 PM
"in the real world of beginning with 50-100 people in their first service"
in my real world, our first service had about 10 people. ;)
Posted by tammy | Posted at 08/12/2006 4:03 AMI have no idea how many people or how much money was spent to start Mars Hill, but I do know that neither should matter to us. God uses different people in different ways to spread His kingdom. Our comments shouldn't be about tearing down what God has done, but rather praising the fact that 1,000 plus people are connected to God and growing in His presence. If our purpose as church planters is to be the next Mars Hill, then we missed our calling, and are trying to live Rob's. If you want to us Marketing then use Marketing, but don't fault Rob/Mars Hill because they don't. Has Rob's fame spread? yes, but look at his current speaking tour. The one in which he is taking no money to do, but rather donating. Maybe that should say something about his character and what he is really all about. Posted by Rick | Posted at 08/13/2006 6:10 PM
Well, I didn't really make this comment to argue with anyone, but since it seems I have been "called on the carpet" for "tearing down" so I will respond briefly. First, it was and is not my intention to tear down Rob or Mars Hill. I began by saying how helpful and inspiring I have found Rob's teachings and book. My simple point was that in the book, Rob doesn't give us much background on how his church got started and to me, gave the impression that they just started and 1,000 people showed up and then makes the strong statement that church marketing makes him sick! My reaction was that for potential church planters, this can either lead to false expectations that 1,000 people will show up at their first service with absolutely know advertisement, etc and that advertising your church is wrong! I am not faulting Rob for using Marketing, I am just concerned that the idea is that no one should use it according to Bell. I personally am thrilled about the ministry of Mars HIll and don't doubt his character and what he is doing there. Posted by clint | Posted at 08/13/2006 6:32 PM
I like Velvet Elvis, and I heard Bell speak at Fuller. I appreciate his message. But I'm glad Bell got rid of the bleached white Billy Idol hair. It's just a little too Marketing-Cool for me. We all need to be guard that our new discernment for what is good or true or worthwhile isn't the ALmighty "Cool." Posted by Susan | Posted at 08/15/2006 9:19 AM
First of all, as mentioned above, book publishers control title, cover, and marketing. It's the publisher's book to sell, not the author's. Therefore, the publisher has complete control over those things. In rare cases, the author can tell the publisher what to do but, as a rule, the publisher is boss. Don't fault Rob Bell for the marketing of this awesome book. That's ridiculous.
Second, isn't evangelism marketing? What's wrong with being creative and trying to get people to read a great book about authentic Christianity. I don't get it. You whine when people don't flesh out what Christ commanded and you whine when people like Zondervan and Rob Bell are trying to get people on board as a Christ-follower. Come on, people!
Third, I've noticed several articles on theooze with poor spelling and typos. Doesn't anyone proofread anymore? If you're going to write an article and get people to take you seriously, make it look professional. A schoolteacher wrote this article? Joel, you should have had someone in the English department proofread it before you submitted it.
Gene
Posted by genepjennings | Posted at 08/16/2006 8:35 PMfirst, God bless you all and let's all try to remember why it is we are here in the 1st place, to bring God's kingdom here to earth, let's not get caught up in such trivial stuff, such as the back cover of Velvet Elvis, and the info, he gave or didn't give about church planting....all that is irrelevant. The book was about inviting people to come JUMP with JESUS. I liked someone else's comment about Rob Bell being human, let's not forget that. I agree with some of the others, that Rob has an incredible calling on his life and praise God for that. There is always going to be one thing that someone might not agree with us or someone else on, but, to turn away from that person because of one thing is like denouncing all the good that they have said....I hope and pray that God isn't as critical and harsh as we humans are because it that were true, we have all screwed up and we are all getting turned away in the end. Posted by charity | Posted at 08/18/2006 5:50 AM
It's interesting to note that the Paper back re-issue of the book dropped the "fastest growing churches in American history" blurb off the back cover.
Joel K
Posted by Joel Kiekintveld | Posted at 01/19/2007 1:05 PM