Great review!
The important lesson to be learned in reading this book is that whatever your political affiliation or religious persuasion we should be committed to serving the poor, the homeless, the afflicted and anyone in need. The church has been derilect in its responsibilites to meet the needs of humanity and we have passed on the responsibility to the government when it was ours in the first place.
Well said. I thought the book was very good as well. You nailed it here, as does Boyd.
"The church has been derilect in its responsibilites to meet the needs of humanity and we have passed on the responsibility to the government when it was ours in the first place. "
I don't understand these types of guilty, hand-wringing statements.
church, government, what's the difference? If the church is people, rather than an organization, then it's a false distinction. There are Christians in the organization known as the church, there are Christians in the organization known as the government, but whereever these people are, that's the church.
This book is a valued contribution to the church’s journey to integrity in it’s witness. Lee Camp’s (see http://www.theooze.com/articles/article.cfm?id=1248 for a review of Camp's book) influence on Dr. Boyd although seen in quotes, I feel has unfortunately not gone deep enough for me to maintain the integrity of the nuanced position of the New Testament, spelt out so clearly by John H. Yoder. Boyd at this stage in his journey (based on the book) still has sign’s of Luther’s ‘two kingdom ethic’ which is unfortunate as it is so distant from the engaged position of the early Christians which would see them in the midst of ‘this evil age’ but not compromising with it… and therefore being crucified like our Lord.
If you have not read “Mere Discipleship” which both Brian McLaren and Boyd quotes. It’s a great place to start.
what a difficult topic.....there is a saying...evil exists because good men do nothing. whats challenging is that we as christians in the united states have democracy so you are allowed to vote...you have a voice and the tools to bring about change. this didn't exist in the bible times so how do we live then....i don't want to see the states become more evil because we don't get involved in politics. every worldview is represented...why is there not a christian worldview....? a dialog needs to be done....so here some ideas................why not discuss what a a biblical christian party would look like. a two party system is just not effective and this would help vote with a clear conscious since both parties have faults. run for office but run as independant.........trouble for the future is the influnence of postmodern thought in politics...this it the true danger because it has inflitrated the econmics, but when both parties begin to espose postmodern thought....evil will reign...we don't need reletavism, or the belief right and wrong doesn't exist in the making of laws....but regrefully the culture is moving in that mindset and guess who will represent the postmodern peoplewho will represent the majority....thats right...postmodern politician who don't believe in absolute truth/ right or wrong/ ethics.. we are moving to world that will be worse that nazi.
The term "socially active" has a faint whiff of political activism and is a harbenger of the Left's co-opting the "evolution" of the church (es) per "Red Letter Christians"/Sojourners.
The Left has repeatedly proven itself to be no real friend of any Church or religion (save Islam--when it fits their near-term political need) and neither no friend of the poor or oppressed (as nothing has proven more financially and spirtiually oppressive than Leftist socialism).
...what was Lenin's term, "useful idiots"?
Real effective social justice and reform occurs with realization of personal responsibilty coupled with valued personal assistance, one person at a time.
I guess I'm being "accussed" of being a "Marxist Leftist" or perhaps I'm missing the point. The truth of my political affiliation may surprise you. Nonetheless, using the "Governement" to spread the gospel is ridiculous. God does not require the assistance of the US congress to spread His message of salvation. I've worked for the government in the past, it is not an effective vehicle for evangelism. The point is, corrupt politicians all to often prey upon the church and use Pastors to maintain thier easy paycheck without doing a thing for their constituency. People guided and informed by their faith is a different subject, I dont want another theocracy enforcing the Constantinian Paradigm of government. Thanks for the comments and blessings! Jeremy E.
Using the government to spread the gospel is as ridiculous (and effective) as it to use it to affect social change. The genius and success of the United States resides in its celebration and liberation of the individual, reflecting and glorifying the Divine creation of free will. Utilizing any macro organization (whether it be Governmental or Clerical or any amalgam of the two) in social change is largely ineffective for the very reasons of its dimunition of individual free will. Mass conversion, of any kind (whether spiritual or social) is a short-term myth; large scale, forced change has proven to lead to longer term resentment, dependency and social stratification.
And it's largly been a hallmark of the Left to utilize the government to circumvent the individual. The "religious right"/neocon movement was a largly a defense to the ongoing, large scale encroachment on culture and individual freedoms and rights (including expression of faith and religion) by the Left--often assisted, ne spearheaded, by "liberal clergy" (Fr. Daniel Berrigan, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Rev. Al Sharpton, National Council of Churches, etc. anyone?).
When one starts to hear annunciations as to larger scale political movements, couched in terms like "social justice" and "ecological stewardship"with increasing frequency--which has been the case in the last 18mos amongst the "evolving" and "emerging" church culture--awarness of more nefarious intentions, and results, need to be kept in mind.
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Great review! Posted by www.quirkygrace.blogspot.com | Posted at 10/26/2006 6:48 AM
The important lesson to be learned in reading this book is that whatever your political affiliation or religious persuasion we should be committed to serving the poor, the homeless, the afflicted and anyone in need. The church has been derilect in its responsibilites to meet the needs of humanity and we have passed on the responsibility to the government when it was ours in the first place.
Well said. I thought the book was very good as well. You nailed it here, as does Boyd.
Posted by hospitality | Posted at 10/27/2006 4:48 PM"The church has been derilect in its responsibilites to meet the needs of humanity and we have passed on the responsibility to the government when it was ours in the first place. "
I don't understand these types of guilty, hand-wringing statements.
church, government, what's the difference? If the church is people, rather than an organization, then it's a false distinction. There are Christians in the organization known as the church, there are Christians in the organization known as the government, but whereever these people are, that's the church.
Posted by Hippo | Posted at 11/02/2006 3:26 PMThis book is a valued contribution to the church’s journey to integrity in it’s witness. Lee Camp’s (see http://www.theooze.com/articles/article.cfm?id=1248 for a review of Camp's book) influence on Dr. Boyd although seen in quotes, I feel has unfortunately not gone deep enough for me to maintain the integrity of the nuanced position of the New Testament, spelt out so clearly by John H. Yoder. Boyd at this stage in his journey (based on the book) still has sign’s of Luther’s ‘two kingdom ethic’ which is unfortunate as it is so distant from the engaged position of the early Christians which would see them in the midst of ‘this evil age’ but not compromising with it… and therefore being crucified like our Lord.
If you have not read “Mere Discipleship” which both Brian McLaren and Boyd quotes. It’s a great place to start.
Posted by Jarrod McKenna | Posted at 11/06/2006 12:18 AMwhat a difficult topic.....there is a saying...evil exists because good men do nothing. whats challenging is that we as christians in the united states have democracy so you are allowed to vote...you have a voice and the tools to bring about change. this didn't exist in the bible times so how do we live then....i don't want to see the states become more evil because we don't get involved in politics. every worldview is represented...why is there not a christian worldview....? a dialog needs to be done....so here some ideas................why not discuss what a a biblical christian party would look like. a two party system is just not effective and this would help vote with a clear conscious since both parties have faults. run for office but run as independant.........trouble for the future is the influnence of postmodern thought in politics...this it the true danger because it has inflitrated the econmics, but when both parties begin to espose postmodern thought....evil will reign...we don't need reletavism, or the belief right and wrong doesn't exist in the making of laws....but regrefully the culture is moving in that mindset and guess who will represent the postmodern peoplewho will represent the majority....thats right...postmodern politician who don't believe in absolute truth/ right or wrong/ ethics.. we are moving to world that will be worse that nazi. Posted by david | Posted at 11/11/2006 6:17 PM
The term "socially active" has a faint whiff of political activism and is a harbenger of the Left's co-opting the "evolution" of the church (es) per "Red Letter Christians"/Sojourners.
The Left has repeatedly proven itself to be no real friend of any Church or religion (save Islam--when it fits their near-term political need) and neither no friend of the poor or oppressed (as nothing has proven more financially and spirtiually oppressive than Leftist socialism).
...what was Lenin's term, "useful idiots"?
Real effective social justice and reform occurs with realization of personal responsibilty coupled with valued personal assistance, one person at a time.
Posted by Royce | Posted at 11/14/2006 10:44 AMI guess I'm being "accussed" of being a "Marxist Leftist" or perhaps I'm missing the point. The truth of my political affiliation may surprise you. Nonetheless, using the "Governement" to spread the gospel is ridiculous. God does not require the assistance of the US congress to spread His message of salvation. I've worked for the government in the past, it is not an effective vehicle for evangelism. The point is, corrupt politicians all to often prey upon the church and use Pastors to maintain thier easy paycheck without doing a thing for their constituency. People guided and informed by their faith is a different subject, I dont want another theocracy enforcing the Constantinian Paradigm of government. Thanks for the comments and blessings! Jeremy E. Posted by Jeremy | Posted at 11/14/2006 4:35 PM
Using the government to spread the gospel is as ridiculous (and effective) as it to use it to affect social change. The genius and success of the United States resides in its celebration and liberation of the individual, reflecting and glorifying the Divine creation of free will. Utilizing any macro organization (whether it be Governmental or Clerical or any amalgam of the two) in social change is largely ineffective for the very reasons of its dimunition of individual free will. Mass conversion, of any kind (whether spiritual or social) is a short-term myth; large scale, forced change has proven to lead to longer term resentment, dependency and social stratification.
And it's largly been a hallmark of the Left to utilize the government to circumvent the individual. The "religious right"/neocon movement was a largly a defense to the ongoing, large scale encroachment on culture and individual freedoms and rights (including expression of faith and religion) by the Left--often assisted, ne spearheaded, by "liberal clergy" (Fr. Daniel Berrigan, Rev. Jesse Jackson, Rev. Al Sharpton, National Council of Churches, etc. anyone?).
When one starts to hear annunciations as to larger scale political movements, couched in terms like "social justice" and "ecological stewardship"with increasing frequency--which has been the case in the last 18mos amongst the "evolving" and "emerging" church culture--awarness of more nefarious intentions, and results, need to be kept in mind.
Posted by Royce | Posted at 11/14/2006 10:38 PM