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Kester Brewin is a founding member of Vaux, a collective of artists and city lovers exploring a spirituality rooted in the urban experience. His book Signs of Emergence: A Vision for Church That Is Always Organic/Networked/Decentralized/Bottom-Up/Communal/Flexible/Always Evolving is released in the United States will be released by Baker Books in July 2007. Also, Kester teaches math and has written on education policy for the BBC and various government bodies. He is married with two young children, and used to find time to make short films.
Recently I interviewed Kester via email for my upcoming book Rising from the Ashes: Rethinking Church. I hope you find his insights as intriguing and helpful to the urban emerging church as I did. Cheers.
Becky Garrison: How do you define hospitality to the stranger?
Kester Brewin: With difficulty. Jesus was asked "so who is my neighbor?" and gave the parable of the Good Samaritan. That was a clear case of hospitality. Now, with our interactions/relationships so broken up and fragmented, it can be less easy to work that out. If I share a bottle of wine with my next-door-neighbor, am I being hospitable? Am I only being hospitable if the wine is fairly traded? We have the potential to encounter thousands of strangers on the way to work each day in London. How do we show hospitality to them? Is it possible to? Who is most needy? Is it the guy begging for money, or successful guy in the suit who is desperately lonely?
So perhaps we are just left with this: hospitality to the stranger is less about actively finding that "other" than making sure that I am actively opening myself to the awareness of who among these crowds might need that hospitable moment.
How do you minister to those for whom church is not in their vocabulary?
I guess that answer is obvious - without words! Trouble is, church is in everyone's vocabulary. But for too many it's a word that carries far too much negative meaning. So we minister to them without using the words.
Elaborate on this statement – “the city started life as a statement of independence from God but ended up through Christ as presenting perfectly the goal of divine and human cohabitation.”
See the chapter in my book ;-) I think it's a very important idea. We have neglected to reflect on the importance of the city, and ignored the biblical metaphor of the city, and thus ended up neglecting the cities we (used to) live in. We've demonized them, in other words.
What outreach strategies have you found to be effective in an urban environment versus those methods that tend to further alienate those for whom church is not a part of their vocabulary?
Creative and artistic stuff. If I'm right about the city, the city is all about co-creating with God... In the buildings, the galleries, the concert halls we see humanity and divinity working together. So if you emphasize the creative, you naturally draw people toward the creator.
What are some of the unique challenges to doing urban ministry?
Facing "the other." In the city there are just so many people, the potentiality for relationship is so high…and thus the potentiality for getting hurt is so high. So people are excited about being in the city, but also guarded. They are also so busy, and so used to spectacles. You can't stun people into belief. You have to work slowly - more slowly than you would probably have to in a rural context.
Where do you find hints of God in the city?
Everywhere. There is no place where God can't be found. Even in the places that seem God-less, they are full of God for that - full of the God's ache to pull people there and do something.
Why do you say that the city is the place where our dreamy theologies must get their hands dirty?
Because too often we see academic theology doing very little to actually impact practice on the ground. It's too top-down. Good theology starts with dirty hands and a good heart, and works out the tidy thoughts later. If you start with pure reason you'll never get your heart fully enough involved to get down and change things.
How do you see churches engaging in issues of social justice without becoming political pawns?
By not being impressed with power, not finding power attractive. Too often churches have had political influence dangled in front of them by the powerful - and been tempted by the thought that if they just compromised this once and got involved at that level they could do so much more. It's never worked. Instead, they should just keep fighting away at the coal face: highlighting injustice and working to stamp it out from the bottom up, not the top down.
How do you define church in the 21st century?
Groups of believers. I'll let others work out the details ;-)
What do you think of technology (blogs, podcasts) as tools to advance the Gospel?
They can facilitate communications between and among these groups. What they can't do is replicate them. No matter how good the technology, you cannot mediate presence. And I don't believe you ever will do.
Where do you see this technology going in the future?
Blogging will settle down. There's currently too much noise... too many people talking for it really to be called a conversation. It will develop more towards this - better tools for conversations between nodes, rather than nodes just mouthing off into the ether.
Among Becky Garrison's publications include Rising from the Ashes: Rethinking Church (Seabury Books, October 2007). She will be speaking at Greenbelt Festival 2007 and Soularize.
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Excellent interview, Becky and Kester. I love it when you (Kester) said
"There is no place where God can't be found. Even in the places that seem God-less, they are full of God for that - full of the God's ache to pull people there and do something."
Wow.
I lost my copy of The Complex Christ about a month after getting it from you at Soliton last year; it vanished in my move from Atlanta to Raleigh. : ( But I just got my copy of Signs of Emergence; it is a reunion of great joy.
I loved the article. I think it's important to find evidence of God and God's work in Urban living environments. It offers hope to us all. .....thanks...Jeannine Otis, St. Marks Church...Jahneen
I am always uplifted by people who find God in their lives and their work in Urban settings. It's an inspiration. Thanks Becky!!! and Brva to Kevin!!!!. Jeannine Otis at St. Marks Church in the Bowery Manhattan.
Becky and Kester:
I just finished the book this evening. It is a terribly insightful contribution to many questions people don't typically speak about, coming from someone who has a good deal of experience with these matters.
Great interview above. I will be completing a review of the book in the next week of so. There is vastly more to the book than one can garner from an interview. I recommend people get this book and spend time with it.
Awaiting your book Becky!!!
Best,
Bill
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Excellent interview, Becky and Kester. I love it when you (Kester) said
"There is no place where God can't be found. Even in the places that seem God-less, they are full of God for that - full of the God's ache to pull people there and do something."
Wow.
I lost my copy of The Complex Christ about a month after getting it from you at Soliton last year; it vanished in my move from Atlanta to Raleigh. : ( But I just got my copy of Signs of Emergence; it is a reunion of great joy.
Posted by Mike Morrell | Posted at 07/25/2007 6:46 AMI loved the article. I think it's important to find evidence of God and God's work in Urban living environments. It offers hope to us all. .....thanks...Jeannine Otis, St. Marks Church...Jahneen Posted by Jeannine Otis | Posted at 07/25/2007 8:54 AM
I am always uplifted by people who find God in their lives and their work in Urban settings. It's an inspiration. Thanks Becky!!! and Brva to Kevin!!!!. Jeannine Otis at St. Marks Church in the Bowery Manhattan. Posted by Jeannine Otis | Posted at 07/25/2007 8:56 AM
Becky and Kester:
I just finished the book this evening. It is a terribly insightful contribution to many questions people don't typically speak about, coming from someone who has a good deal of experience with these matters.
Great interview above. I will be completing a review of the book in the next week of so. There is vastly more to the book than one can garner from an interview. I recommend people get this book and spend time with it.
Awaiting your book Becky!!!
Best,
Bill
Posted by Bill Dahl | Posted at 07/29/2007 1:42 AM