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Before we get started I would like to plainly state that I firmly believe that the Bible is inspired by the Spirit of God. I don't question it's authenticity for one moment. I have read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation at least 10 times, and in no less than 5 translations. I've spent hundreds of hours in Bible college classes and thousands more studying on my own. I've read commentaries on almost every book of the Bible and have personally taught on every single book in the Old Testament and New Testament. I've studied Greek and I've studied Hebrew. For many years of my life, I spent an average of about 7 hours a day doing nothing but reading and studying this wonderful book. I would even purposefully fall asleep listening to the Bible on tape so I could completely memorize entire books. I say all that to say this: I respect the Bible and I hold it close to my heart. There is no other book in the world like it; the content in the Bible is absolutely life changing.
What I am about to say in this article is strictly on behalf of people. Though I love the Bible and all it has to offer; I love people even more, and nothing grieves my heart more than to watch people being hurt or condemned by what has been taught to them concerning the Bible. This goes out to everyone who just needs a break from the constant guilt they feel for not being as faithful to the Bible as people have told them they should be. I write this to the person who is riddled with insecurity every time a conversation comes up about particular stories or passages they feel they should know, but don't. This is for the one who has basically given up on hearing the voice of God in your life because you can't understand the Shakespearian dialect or the theological principals of the original Greek or Hebrew. More than anything I want to bring a breath of fresh air to those of you who feel like you're a million miles behind other Christians because you haven't spent the time that they have reading and studying your Bible.
The Great Exchange
At the end of Gideon's "deliverance career" the Israelites wanted to make him their king. Gideon refused, and said that instead of becoming their king he would like them to each bring him a gold ear ring from the plunder. Everyone brought a portion of gold and Gideon melted it down and made a "golden Ephod". The Ephod was the vest that the priests put on when they entered the Holy of Holies. In the pocket of the Ephod were the lots, which were used when they "caste lots" in order to determine God's will in a certain situation. When the priest entered the temple wearing the golden Ephod, he could actually hear the voice of God audibly. You might remember one time when King David told the priests to "bring him the golden Ephod". David put it on and went into the temple to ask God whether or not he should attack the Amalakites. David heard the audible voice of God tell him to attack.
The story of Gideon goes on to say that after the golden Ephod was made, "all of Israel prostituted themselves by worshiping the Ephod". Think of that for a moment. They actually worshiped the way in which to determine God's will over worshiping God Himself. The story later goes on to say that it became a snare to Gideon and his family.
So what does this have to do with the Bible? One of the things we are taught about the Bible is that it is the way in which to determine the will of God. I believe that just as the Israelites prostituted themselves after the golden Ephod, modern day Christians do the exact same with the Bible. We have prostituted ourselves after the Bible and there is no doubt in my mind that it has become a thorn and a snare to almost every Christian in America. In fact I think many Christians have actually traded God for the Bible. Many others have even come to the point where they think God IS the Bible! I truly believe that the Bible has become the "golden Ephod" of our time.
Who's Your Daddy?
It's interesting to me that we actually call the Bible "The Word of God". The Bible doesn't make that claim about itself. In the book of John it says: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God", but then it goes on to say, "The Word became flesh". The Bible outright tells us that JESUS is the Word, not the Bible! There wasn't even a Bible put together when this passage was written. When we teach people that the Bible is "The Word" we are flat out exchanging Christ for the Bible.
I want you to imagine what goes through the mind of Christ when he sees churches call themselves "Bible Churches". Think about that for a moment. Christ Himself said "I will build MY Church" and today we have "Bible Churches" in every city of America. The name alone gives our intentions and true feelings away. We are no different in this generation from the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They had a very similar view of their Old Testament scriptures. Jesus confronted them and said, "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:39-40). The Pharisees were making the same trade that millions of Christians have made today. Another point about this passage is that Jesus clearly makes a distinction between "studying the Scriptures" and "coming to Him".
Most Christians believe with all their heart that a person is not even saved unless they "believe in the Bible". Churches advertise themselves as being a "Bible believing Church". Toss that around in your head for awhile and truly think about it. Where in the Bible does it say that we have to "believe in the Bible" in order to be saved? It does say to believe in Christ, but for some reason we have raised belief in the Bible to the same spiritual level as believing in Christ Himself. In the New Testament times the Christians met together to study God, and today when we meet together in someone’s home it's for a Bible study. If the Bible isn't brought out and studied at some point in the evening the entire event is looked upon as an unspiritual waste of time.
I understand that most of us have never stopped to think about these things, but if you step back and take an honest look at the landscape of our religion, I think you'll be surprised at how right I am. The American Christian system has wholeheartedly exchanged God for the Bible! This is precisely why so many sincere hearted people go into a full fledged panic attack the moment anyone suggests that there might be errors or discrepancies in the Bible. Most Christians will outright tell you that to even entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Because we have made the "God exchange" we have to insist that the Bible now takes on the attributes of God Himself. This is why it is imperative that everyone believe the Bible is infallible. It is equally grieving to my heart when I hear people say things like, "If there is even one thing wrong in the Bible, our entire faith is worthless". Their entire existence as a Christian stands on the belief that there are no errors in Scripture. If they were to be shown a true discrepancy in Scripture that could not be explained away, it would literally cause their entire religion to come caving in on them. I've heard people openly admit, "If you can't believe it all, you can't believe any of it". Their entire faith stands on Scripture instead of Christ. Make no mistake about it, there has been an exchange of monumental proportions!
This is why so many Christians judge the strength and status of their Christian walk by how much time they spend reading their Bible. It seems to be a constant thorn in the side of every single Christian I know. They always feel guilty for not studying it every day of their life. They just know that God is upset with them for not reading it more. The cycle goes on and on until it becomes a permanent snare in their walk. The looming shadow of performance based Christianity is always there to put them in their place the moment they feel a shred of confidence, contentment or joy. What's worse is that every one of us are set up for emanate failure. We are constantly pressured to "be in the Word" but we are never told how much is enough. No matter how much time we spend studying it; it's never enough. If we read it one hour, we could have read it two. If we read it eight hours, we could have read it nine. No matter what we do, we're always left feeling like we fell short. It's almost like it was set up that way in order to prevent growth of any kind in our lives and to keep us down.
Let me be the first to say that I am sick of it!
I am quite honestly sick of all the manipulation and oppression that has been put on people in the name of religion. I'm sick of all the half truths and outright lies that have been made up about the Bible in order to force people to submit and serve their local church. I'm sick of the guilt and condemnation that so many people live with because they can't keep up with the rigorous demands of an impossible system. And most of all, I'm sick of the empty (and quite frankly the unbiblical) promises concerning what the Bible's purpose is in our lives. Most of the things we are taught about the Bible are found nowhere in the Bible; they come from a religious spirit that seeks to whittle people down to a spiritual nub in an effort to gain control over their minds. Without a doubt, this wonderful book has been used to cuff the spirits of millions of sincere hearted people who honestly want to connect with God's Heart.
The Irony of "Bible believing Churches"
The thing that perplexes me more than anything else concerning this subject is the fact that Churches who hold up the Bible as their ultimate guide in life, almost never follow a single thing in it. Every time I hear a pastor thunder that, "We do everything according to the Word of God in this Church.", I am always puzzled as to what exactly he is talking about. In fact, I've struggled to find just one thing that we practice in modern day Institutional Churches that coincides with Scripture.
Where in the Bible did they have "Worship Services" lead by a "Worship Leader"? Perhaps you might find a few places in the Old Testament where something similar might have occurred, however in the New Testament it simply never happened. Almost every church in America promotes "Corporate Worship" as though it's a Scriptural principal that we all must adhere to. This is simply not found in the New Testament Church.
Every mention of "Worship" in the New Testament was in reference to it being a private intimate matter between each individual believer and God. Paul said to "sing and make music in your hearts". Ironically, even worship leaders know that this is true. They will almost always tell everyone in the room to "forget about everyone around them and get alone with God" before the service even starts. They know this, however they insist that everyone meet together to do it.
Where in the Bible do we find "Youth Leaders" who are specifically paid to lead the younger people in the Church? For that matter, where in the New Testament did they EVER separate families the moment they walked through the door of a Church? The fact that we do this in modern day institutions is absolutely flabbergasting! This practice entirely defeats the purpose and picture of what Church is all about. Ironically the same pastor, who signs the paycheck of the Youth Leader and Child Care Workers, also preaches that "The Family is the most intimate form of Church". Separating those families before church begins is not only unbiblical, but it's down right destructive.
Did the New Testament Church have a stage? Of course they didn't. The Church experience in the Bible times was not a spectator sport. It was about participation, interaction and fellowship. Today, fellowship is that block of five minutes you might get to say hello or goodbye in the foyer once the show is over. Church in the New Testament was never a play. There was no stage with lights, video and sound systems. It's become so much of a "show mentality" that when we now start a new ministry within the Church we call it a "Program". That alone should cause us to stop and think about what we're doing.
The things we promote and encourage are also nowhere to be found in the Bible. When did the New Testament Christians do "Outreaches"? When was "Group Prayer" or "Prayer Chains" preached in New Testament times? What about "Tithing"? Did Paul tell the people to pay 10% of their income to the Church? NEVER! We have built an entire religion around the infamous "Sinners Prayer" that we try with all our might to get people to recite, however there is no "Sinners Prayer" anywhere in Scripture. Believe it or not, the word "Trinity" isn't there either. Most, if not all Christian Churches today won't even acknowledge your salvation unless you believe in that one. Many Churches have "Alter Calls" at the end of their service where they push and push everyone to come to the alter and meet with God regarding their problems. You guessed it; it's not in the Bible! What New Testament Church had a "Board" that the Pastor had to answer to? Where was "Associate Pastor", "Marriage Pastor", "Prayer Pastor", or any of our other new concepts of "Pastor" found in the Bible? Did the Pastors in the Bible preach a sermon every week? NO! In fact, the people met every day, not every week; and when they did meet, THEY brought songs to sing, and THEY spoke the word of the Lord to each other. Though I could go on and on, I'll finish this section with the big one: At what point did Sunday become "God's Day"? If anything, the Sabbath day was Saturday.
I am not saying that any of these things are wrong. In fact, I personally don't have a problem with most of them. I don't think God does either. My point is this: don't say you do everything by the Bible! Very little of what we do in modern day church has anything at all to do with the Bible. Why should it? The New Testament Church didn't even have a Bible.
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I am in general agreement with the article, especially with the emphasis on the unbiblical nature and (in my opinion) overall undesirability of the pastor vs. people divide. The idea of gathering together for a spectator event is most unbiblical (and not in the "it's not in the Bible, but it's fine" sense, either).
However, some of the practices the author claims to not be present in the Scriptures are in fact present. Are they declared to be the only way to do things, forever and amen? No, but they are present.
To take the last one first, the first day of the week, as a commemoration of the Resurrection, received the label "the Lord's Day" within the New Testament period (Rev 1.10). Sunday is recorded as a day the disciples gathered to "break bread" in Acts 20.7. 1 Cor 16.2 also refers to gathering on Sunday. In the immediately-post-New-Testament period, the very early Christian teaching document called the Didache specifically instructs believers to "on the Lord's Day come together and break bread."
So Sunday as "the Lord's Day" (i.e., "Jesus's Day") and as a time for believers to gather is a very early, and indeed Biblical idea.
I also must disagree strenuously about something much more important: the idea that prayer and worship in the Bible are not corporate and only individual. It hardly seems worth citing texts to demonstrate that praying together and worshiping together occurred in the New Testament period. This article itself, after claiming that worship in the Scripture is never corporate, refers to the New Testament church gathering and bringing songs to sing. Well, they didn't perform those songs solo! Not that praying and worshiping alone aren't Biblical also, but doing it corporately actually seems to be much more prevalent.
So I think it's great to challenge churches today to not assume that their practices are Biblical, and especially to challenge believers to be active participants (not spectators) in the Body of Christ. Let's just think clearly and with the correct information about what the Bible does and doesn't say.
Great piece, if a little overdone. Where were those daughters when you were writing this magnum opus? Seriously, many of us have been saying these things since the early 70's with little result. However, let's not build a movement around criticizing those who are caught up in a giant, stupid movement which doesn't understand that faith comes from Jesus, and Jesus is now (God help us all).
Fishoil
Good post, but like everyone above me said, a little overdone. I think you'll like the book "Pagan Christianity" that Barna just released recently where he explores the roots of some of the practices of our church, and like the title suggests, they're pagan roots. You can find it here
http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/141431485X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202716761&sr=8-2
While you make some good points, I think that you need to consider some positive impacts that tradition has on our faith. For example, you say that the "trinity" is not found anywhere in the Bible. That is true. But the trinity was the result of hundreds of hours of debate between church leaders to figure who exactly it is that we are worshipping as Christians, and how we should go about worshipping in a truthful manner. The idea of the trinity was formed in response to the heresies surrounding them early church; and thank God that they did, because of them, we have a better idea of who God is. I think the best way to look at it is to see it as an argument that has, for the most part, been resolved, for our benefit, not to our detriment. We can have the exact same argument today about the trinity, and it would be interesting and lively, but a waste of time if it's an argument that has already been settled by the church centuries before...
I agree with the heart of this article. I agree that the American Church is extremely program based and that its decorum and format is not found in Scripture. However, when Churches say they "do things according to the Bible" they're not referring to structure and schedule. They're referring to intent (discipleship, fellowship, etc...) The issue is not vocabulary but that our Churches are being affected by our culture. Bodies, money, and buildings supposedly indicate success. In reality "success" shouldn't be task oriented. The real question is, are we making disciples that make disciples?
Also I would challenge the author on this front. Your article makes an attempt to be contrary. I understand the purpose of using shocking language to be effective, but dissension for the sake of dissension is not only pointless but is divisive. It's easier to throw away the old and start fresh but remember that the Church is here to stay. The real challenge is to mend her broken parts. Luther (I think) said it best, "The Church is a whore, but she is still my mother."
God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One, and they are the Word. God is revealed in creation and in the Scripture, both of which are "god-breathed". God lives eternally, historically and presently. All these aspects point to the One God.
So what is the point of this post? This.
God reveals himself to us daily...directly in the person of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit who lives in us, through his creation - including other persons, and in Scripture. It is Scripture that tells us these things. Therefore it is to Scripture that we need to turn interpret or experiences, thoughts and actions.
We forget that the early church was essentially Jewish in character. It derived much of its form from the reading of the Torah in the synagogue, the sacrificial system, festivals such as the Seder, the keeping of the Sabbath, and the oral teaching of a rabbi in discussion with his students. Thus there was text, ceremony, discussion and application.
We also turn to our church of fellow Christians to 'share in the feast'. We turn to our teaching pastors to hold our interpretation accountable. We turn to our services to provide the ceremonial structure that helps us focus on God. And we turn to creation to marvel in God’s revealed beauty and to carry His message to the fallen.
But because Scripture is the historical record of God revealing Himself to us, it is the measuring stick by which we compare everything else in our experience.
Jesus himself said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am come not to destroy but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
did Christ fulfill the law or not?
I am just now seeing how little of the actual article is posted here. What you guys are reading here is about one fourth of the entire article on the Bible. If you would like to see the entire article, go to my myspace page and read "The Bible blog part 1 and 2. www.myspace.com/darinhufford
Thanks
Darin Hufford
Hello Darin
Thank you for writing a great article and provoking some deep soul searching questions.
A couple of comments:
In the 21st century, we all are struggling to find out what it means to be a true and genuine follower of Jesus while at the same time trying to be relevant to our culture. Being an Australian, I have always wondered what people in the USA would do if they said "In Jesus we trust", rather than "In God We trust". Much of our image of God is what we want it to be!!
You make an excellent point about the Sabbath. The Sabbath Day is the seventh day, ie. Saturday. Unfortunately people tend to forget this was set by God during creation and then in the Ten Commandments. The fact that people met on the Lord's Day does not in anyway take away the original point of the Sabbath. The disciples meet on the other days as well! Jesus followed the Sabbath and taught how it should be used (eg. healing people) and not treated as legalistic exercise to show religious superiority.
Fortunately for all of us, whatever our particular understanding of the beliefs and ways of worship/church, God is a gracious and loving God and cares for us all. So in inspite of all the issues raised, indeed in God we can trust.
Love to you all
Robin
Hi Darin...
Some good thoughts, but as others have said perhaps a little overdone in expression, perhaps due to your frustration with the Status Quo. One thing I got out of what your article is that God and His truth stands firm regardless of how we view or use the Bible.
I've read a lot of similar material to yours since at least the mid 80's and while I was once affronted by such revolutionary ideas, I now think that some important points are being made that we as a Church need to start listening to.
The difficult thing with the radical changes your articles proposes is how do they get implemented into the established Church. I've thought about this for many years and haven't yet got the full revelation on this except I think new ideas are caught than taught.
Make sure you have the respect of those around you and then guided by Gods Spirit and by His Love...live out your ideas.
Cheers Rob W (New Zealand)
I am the pastor of a church in Europe which includes some Christian who have fled from persuction in Africa, where they saw some of their family members killed by extremists militantly opposed to the Christian faith.
A Christian counsellor friend asked me to have a listen to Darin's message entitled "Loosing your religion". I have done this a number of times and note that it appears to be a) a reaction to mistakes, bad advice, bad teaching and hurts received from a variety of mainly American churches and b) a search for something better
I wonder very much whether Darin would have formed a different world view and be on a different journey towards the heart of God if he was starting from a different experiential base.
Perhaps the testimony of a Chinese Christian who has sufferent years of imprisonment and torture for his faith or a believer whose wife, daughter and mother were killed in a car crash by a drunk driver or the remarkeable stories of Christians who worked with the worlds poorest people and died of diseases such as leprosy would shed some more light on God's heart for those who go through real difficulties. Books on these are all available at ..
http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Man-Remarkable-Chinese-Christian/dp/082546207X http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Disguised-Jerry-L-Sittser/dp/0310219310 http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Yes-Mess-Stephen-Critchlow/dp/1602661103
I also wonder if Darin is coming from a religious tradition that doesn't believe that Christians can be affected by the demonic and as such is judging the meanness of carnal Christians as a religious rather than a demonic problem (Eph 4:26-27, Acts 5:3). It is probably worthwhile having a good look at this issue so that we know how to correctly diagnose the underlying heart conditions .. see htpp://pioneerbooks.com/demon.htm .
I'm sure the heart of Jesus is to see captives set free but we need to have a clear diagnosis of what this freedon really is if we are going to lead people into real freedom.
Hope this helps & God Bless, Seamus O'Callaghan
I think that God is everywhere. Different strokes ya know. The bible is a book about people who have had major life chaging experiences do to the calling out by God. I think some of the characters in the next Testament are alive and walking with God as I type this comment. The Book is a good base but if God isnt speaking to you personally you might want to look into that. I am a miracle, God is still doing those ya know. I have submitted my will and he has kept all his promises. Those promises I learned from the Bible. Use it for what it's supposed to be used for. Bow down and worship the creator not a creation.
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I am in general agreement with the article, especially with the emphasis on the unbiblical nature and (in my opinion) overall undesirability of the pastor vs. people divide. The idea of gathering together for a spectator event is most unbiblical (and not in the "it's not in the Bible, but it's fine" sense, either).
However, some of the practices the author claims to not be present in the Scriptures are in fact present. Are they declared to be the only way to do things, forever and amen? No, but they are present.
To take the last one first, the first day of the week, as a commemoration of the Resurrection, received the label "the Lord's Day" within the New Testament period (Rev 1.10). Sunday is recorded as a day the disciples gathered to "break bread" in Acts 20.7. 1 Cor 16.2 also refers to gathering on Sunday. In the immediately-post-New-Testament period, the very early Christian teaching document called the Didache specifically instructs believers to "on the Lord's Day come together and break bread."
So Sunday as "the Lord's Day" (i.e., "Jesus's Day") and as a time for believers to gather is a very early, and indeed Biblical idea.
I also must disagree strenuously about something much more important: the idea that prayer and worship in the Bible are not corporate and only individual. It hardly seems worth citing texts to demonstrate that praying together and worshiping together occurred in the New Testament period. This article itself, after claiming that worship in the Scripture is never corporate, refers to the New Testament church gathering and bringing songs to sing. Well, they didn't perform those songs solo! Not that praying and worshiping alone aren't Biblical also, but doing it corporately actually seems to be much more prevalent.
So I think it's great to challenge churches today to not assume that their practices are Biblical, and especially to challenge believers to be active participants (not spectators) in the Body of Christ. Let's just think clearly and with the correct information about what the Bible does and doesn't say.
Posted by Jonathan | Posted at 02/10/2008 3:52 AMGreat piece, if a little overdone. Where were those daughters when you were writing this magnum opus? Seriously, many of us have been saying these things since the early 70's with little result. However, let's not build a movement around criticizing those who are caught up in a giant, stupid movement which doesn't understand that faith comes from Jesus, and Jesus is now (God help us all).
Fishoil
Posted by Brian Reeves | Posted at 02/10/2008 11:44 PMGood post, but like everyone above me said, a little overdone. I think you'll like the book "Pagan Christianity" that Barna just released recently where he explores the roots of some of the practices of our church, and like the title suggests, they're pagan roots. You can find it here
http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/141431485X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202716761&sr=8-2
While you make some good points, I think that you need to consider some positive impacts that tradition has on our faith. For example, you say that the "trinity" is not found anywhere in the Bible. That is true. But the trinity was the result of hundreds of hours of debate between church leaders to figure who exactly it is that we are worshipping as Christians, and how we should go about worshipping in a truthful manner. The idea of the trinity was formed in response to the heresies surrounding them early church; and thank God that they did, because of them, we have a better idea of who God is. I think the best way to look at it is to see it as an argument that has, for the most part, been resolved, for our benefit, not to our detriment. We can have the exact same argument today about the trinity, and it would be interesting and lively, but a waste of time if it's an argument that has already been settled by the church centuries before...
Posted by Hamilton | Posted at 02/11/2008 12:05 AMI agree with the heart of this article. I agree that the American Church is extremely program based and that its decorum and format is not found in Scripture. However, when Churches say they "do things according to the Bible" they're not referring to structure and schedule. They're referring to intent (discipleship, fellowship, etc...) The issue is not vocabulary but that our Churches are being affected by our culture. Bodies, money, and buildings supposedly indicate success. In reality "success" shouldn't be task oriented. The real question is, are we making disciples that make disciples?
Also I would challenge the author on this front. Your article makes an attempt to be contrary. I understand the purpose of using shocking language to be effective, but dissension for the sake of dissension is not only pointless but is divisive. It's easier to throw away the old and start fresh but remember that the Church is here to stay. The real challenge is to mend her broken parts. Luther (I think) said it best, "The Church is a whore, but she is still my mother."
Posted by Jackie | Posted at 02/11/2008 12:46 PMGod the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One, and they are the Word. God is revealed in creation and in the Scripture, both of which are "god-breathed". God lives eternally, historically and presently. All these aspects point to the One God.
So what is the point of this post? This.
God reveals himself to us daily...directly in the person of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit who lives in us, through his creation - including other persons, and in Scripture. It is Scripture that tells us these things. Therefore it is to Scripture that we need to turn interpret or experiences, thoughts and actions.
We forget that the early church was essentially Jewish in character. It derived much of its form from the reading of the Torah in the synagogue, the sacrificial system, festivals such as the Seder, the keeping of the Sabbath, and the oral teaching of a rabbi in discussion with his students. Thus there was text, ceremony, discussion and application.
We also turn to our church of fellow Christians to 'share in the feast'. We turn to our teaching pastors to hold our interpretation accountable. We turn to our services to provide the ceremonial structure that helps us focus on God. And we turn to creation to marvel in God’s revealed beauty and to carry His message to the fallen.
But because Scripture is the historical record of God revealing Himself to us, it is the measuring stick by which we compare everything else in our experience.
Jesus himself said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am come not to destroy but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Posted by J Mark | Posted at 02/12/2008 11:35 AMdid Christ fulfill the law or not? Posted by Darin Hufford | Posted at 02/12/2008 11:39 AM
I am just now seeing how little of the actual article is posted here. What you guys are reading here is about one fourth of the entire article on the Bible. If you would like to see the entire article, go to my myspace page and read "The Bible blog part 1 and 2. www.myspace.com/darinhufford
Thanks
Darin Hufford
Posted by Darin Huffordd | Posted at 02/12/2008 11:45 AMHello Darin
Thank you for writing a great article and provoking some deep soul searching questions.
A couple of comments:
In the 21st century, we all are struggling to find out what it means to be a true and genuine follower of Jesus while at the same time trying to be relevant to our culture. Being an Australian, I have always wondered what people in the USA would do if they said "In Jesus we trust", rather than "In God We trust". Much of our image of God is what we want it to be!!
You make an excellent point about the Sabbath. The Sabbath Day is the seventh day, ie. Saturday. Unfortunately people tend to forget this was set by God during creation and then in the Ten Commandments. The fact that people met on the Lord's Day does not in anyway take away the original point of the Sabbath. The disciples meet on the other days as well! Jesus followed the Sabbath and taught how it should be used (eg. healing people) and not treated as legalistic exercise to show religious superiority.
Fortunately for all of us, whatever our particular understanding of the beliefs and ways of worship/church, God is a gracious and loving God and cares for us all. So in inspite of all the issues raised, indeed in God we can trust.
Love to you all
Robin
Posted by Robin Hill | Posted at 02/15/2008 3:28 AMHi Darin...
Some good thoughts, but as others have said perhaps a little overdone in expression, perhaps due to your frustration with the Status Quo. One thing I got out of what your article is that God and His truth stands firm regardless of how we view or use the Bible.
I've read a lot of similar material to yours since at least the mid 80's and while I was once affronted by such revolutionary ideas, I now think that some important points are being made that we as a Church need to start listening to.
The difficult thing with the radical changes your articles proposes is how do they get implemented into the established Church. I've thought about this for many years and haven't yet got the full revelation on this except I think new ideas are caught than taught.
Make sure you have the respect of those around you and then guided by Gods Spirit and by His Love...live out your ideas.
Cheers Rob W (New Zealand)
Posted by Rob W | Posted at 02/17/2008 4:52 PMI am the pastor of a church in Europe which includes some Christian who have fled from persuction in Africa, where they saw some of their family members killed by extremists militantly opposed to the Christian faith.
A Christian counsellor friend asked me to have a listen to Darin's message entitled "Loosing your religion". I have done this a number of times and note that it appears to be a) a reaction to mistakes, bad advice, bad teaching and hurts received from a variety of mainly American churches and b) a search for something better
I wonder very much whether Darin would have formed a different world view and be on a different journey towards the heart of God if he was starting from a different experiential base.
Perhaps the testimony of a Chinese Christian who has sufferent years of imprisonment and torture for his faith or a believer whose wife, daughter and mother were killed in a car crash by a drunk driver or the remarkeable stories of Christians who worked with the worlds poorest people and died of diseases such as leprosy would shed some more light on God's heart for those who go through real difficulties. Books on these are all available at ..
http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Man-Remarkable-Chinese-Christian/dp/082546207X http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Disguised-Jerry-L-Sittser/dp/0310219310 http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Yes-Mess-Stephen-Critchlow/dp/1602661103
I also wonder if Darin is coming from a religious tradition that doesn't believe that Christians can be affected by the demonic and as such is judging the meanness of carnal Christians as a religious rather than a demonic problem (Eph 4:26-27, Acts 5:3). It is probably worthwhile having a good look at this issue so that we know how to correctly diagnose the underlying heart conditions .. see htpp://pioneerbooks.com/demon.htm .
I'm sure the heart of Jesus is to see captives set free but we need to have a clear diagnosis of what this freedon really is if we are going to lead people into real freedom.
Hope this helps & God Bless, Seamus O'Callaghan
Posted by Seamus O'Callaghan | Posted at 02/18/2008 3:39 PMI think that God is everywhere. Different strokes ya know. The bible is a book about people who have had major life chaging experiences do to the calling out by God. I think some of the characters in the next Testament are alive and walking with God as I type this comment. The Book is a good base but if God isnt speaking to you personally you might want to look into that. I am a miracle, God is still doing those ya know. I have submitted my will and he has kept all his promises. Those promises I learned from the Bible. Use it for what it's supposed to be used for. Bow down and worship the creator not a creation. Posted by Lazarus | Posted at 02/28/2008 5:40 PM