Why Christianity Failed for Me

Seph

Why Christianity Failed for Me

I'm not a pretentious man. I don't suppose that I'm all that unique or the exception, or all that different from the average block. I'm actually quite common.

I fear for my wellbeing and safety.
I worry for my security and the security for those that I love and especially for those I've been entrusted to care for.

Like everyone else, I cannot know the future and the future is a devious thing. Since I cannot know the future, I need to grasp on tightly to the illusions of stability I have.
Because Stability is the antithesis of Change, therefore Change is never a good indicator to the maintenance of this desired illusion.

The last thing I want to hear is that I am going to be prosecuted and discriminated against.
The last promise I want made is that I will endure hardship.

Yet these are the very promises and statements Yeshua makes. (Now, it's debatable whether he's making these statements and promises specifically to me, a 21st century, while male, or specifically to his early first-century audience). But they don't bide well with my hopes of stability.
They're kinda a slap in the face!

Truth be known, I have found more comfort in Taoism with its statement that the only thing we can be certain will never change is Change. The entire universe – every aspect of it and us – are in a constant state of flux. Change is the only norm.

~

How Christianity Succeeded for Me

I can't honestly say that Christianity as a whole has succeeded for me. But certain, very powerful aspects, have.

The escape from the binds and shackles of religiosity; being made free from the endless rules and regulations and conditions needed to appease God and “get right” and “ear” the divine love, only to discover you've always had this divine love since your very conception. You've never needed to earn it.

The totally freeing concept of the death of religion. The idea of a truly unconditional Grace. I think that's unique.

I think that's unique to the heretical rabbi, Yeshua of Nazareth's teachings. Hell! He's the ultimate Religious Heretic of all time! )Including the Religion of Christianity).

~

I no longer get bogged down with issues or questions regarding the nature of Yeshua's divinity – or even if he was divine. It's a silly question really. Mu. We're clearly asking the wrong question.

I've come to realize that I hold an odd and strange relationship with Christianity's founder. I don't see him as a close friend or confidant. He's too dangerous for that. He's even a little scary at times. He needs to be kept at a distance. But at times he speaks truths that are undeniable and world-shaking. It's a love-hate sort of thing really. If anything, this peculiar tension allows me liberty. It allows me to springboard into outer, stranger, and undiscovered areas of spirituality. Without fear of getting lost and without fear of (a least divine) judgment.

~

How did it succeed and fail for you?

Marvin

I like to use Erich Fromm's existential needs as an analytic tool. There are six of them and the first one is Relatedness and Unity. When I compare and contrast people who have a Christian frame of orientation with those who are indifferent to religion or who actually have animus toward religion, I can see a noticeable difference. Max Weber the Sociologist, before his death, around 1920 predicted the culture of narcissism that we are experiencing today. He gave as reasons for the culture of narcissism; the decline of religion and tightening bureaucratic structures. The culture of narcissism results in an impoverishment in interpersonal relatedness, an increase in sado-masochistic tendencies and other problems. Christianity (to be distinguished from mechanical religion and goofy religion) mitigates against those corrupting influences. Christianity as a religion should be considered from both it's aspect as being personal; inwardness and also the interpersonal and social aspect as well. Both Theoria and Praxis. The quality of relatedness between persons is greatly influenced by the touchstone proposition that the people have.

javalava

Once again, a very interesting post, @Seth. It is refreshing to come across someone brave enough to trust that the Truth is strong enough to stand without our "support".

Seph said:
How did it succeed and fail for you?

My immediate answer would words. (Both succeeding and failing.) Without words there would be no Christianity. Yet there are too many of them and far too much emphasis on both the words and the concepts they stand for. And I don't mean "words as against actions", either. IMHO busy-body-ness is a false path many mistake for the Way (I Corinthians 13:1). Basically, Christianity seems to know nothing of wu wei. The closest we get is "Let go and let God" (erring on the passive because it is conceptual and therefore dualistic; words again).

[I, too, have found riches in Daoism, particularly the I Ching. Though there I am a Tourist, where Jesus has me a Pilgrim. See Patrick Calvo's From Tourists to Pilgrims.]

Seph said:
The last thing I want to hear is that I am going to be prosecuted and discriminated against.
The last promise I want made is that I will endure hardship.

Yet these are the very promises and statements Yeshua makes.

Here we seem to differ. I understand that in this (particularly in the Beatitudes) Jesus has things the Right Way Up. The world we were born into (and inevitably adopt) is the insane way of doing things, where people value imaginary things like status, money, humanity or even virtue.

The trouble is, that too is a statement: i.e. in the realm of descriptions rather that the Reality. :/ (Bringing us back to more words: Jeremiah 17:9.)

Seph

javalava said:

Basically, Christianity seems to know nothing of wu wei.

Agreed! (I thought I was the only one here aware of wu wei and who - at least attempted - to follow it).

ringnut

I am tempted to say Christianity failed for me, but wonder if it isn't that my expectations were in error.

I looked to Christianity to give peace. It gave me strife and enmity.
I looked to Christianity to provide a firm moral ground for my children to base their lives on. It gave them unrealistic and impossible expectations.
I looked to Christianity to give me a lifetime spiritual home. It gave me a house of cards.

Now it is not Christianity i look to. It is not answers to all my problems i ask for. I look to Christ, and Christ gives himself. And that's all i need.

javalava

ringnut said:
Now it is not Christianity i look to. It is not answers to all my problems i ask for. I look to Christ, and Christ gives himself. And that's all i need.

Amen! ;) St. Paul knew this too (1 Corinthians 2:2).

BradleyD

We really have to dismantle the entire gospel message to get past this mess. See my attempt at:

http://graceemerges.blogspot.com/2011/06/good-news-of-freedom.html

jough

I wouldn't say Christianity failed me. I would say my great expectations that the Church have profound wisdom and be able to guide and nurture me into spiritual perfection failed me. I took a very long time for these expectation to be crushed and I was quite angry when they were. Adding to the confusion I misdirected my anger at the Church and Christianity.

I will say that Christianity is heavy on theology and light on practice for me. That is why it has not been very useful to me as of late. But there is nothing "wrong" with Christianity if you realize it for what it is.

Sammy

BradleyD said:
We really have to dismantle the entire gospel message to get past this mess. See my attempt at:

http://graceemerges.blogspot.com/2011/06/good-news-of-freedom.html

BradleyD, I just can't see responsibility or accountability to God here. Please explain...

Faith without works is dead. How do you read the sheep and the goats?

Sammy

Sammy

jough said:
I will say that Christianity is heavy on theology and light on practice for me. That is why it has not been very useful to me as of late. But there is nothing "wrong" with Christianity if you realize it for what it is.

We were heavy on Bible, worship in spirit and in truth (musical form), and unity and fundamentalist traditional church beliefs.

Light on practice - which I define as helping the least of these brethren and helping ourselves to become better people like parenting classes and providing sevices like preschool to build a better tomorrow, theology and other thinking of any kind. Light on love and acceptance.

I like the first three i listed. That's mainly what i got out of it.

Sammy

Wraith

I don't want to say that Christianity failed me, but rather, the church.....

At the church my wife & I attened in Florida, I tried to be as involved as I could with my work schedule... We were there every Sunday morning, we helped with clean up tasks after services, My wife taught Sunday School to 4-5 year olds and worked in the nursery, I volunteered to be one of the people who delivered a short "Meditation" when serving communion. I had (what I thought) were great ideas and tried to start a "Men's Group" that was met with maybe luke warm reception, and ultimately never got off the ground. And, eventually, I came to a place where I was asking myself - "What's the point?" It felt like the "purpose" was to bring more people in, to raise more money, and expand and build bigger buildings.... And what really got my attention was that the people in the church were supposed to be my "Faith Family", but I didn't feel like any of those people really "knew" me, and yet the people I worked with 40 hours a week, of differing "religious" backrounds (Agnostic, Catholic, etc) would willingly and literally give me the shirt off their back if I needed it.... It was that contrast that really confused me, and eventually led me here, to TheOoze. Where I found, I wasn't alone in how I felt. Eventually, I "left" the church, I haven't attended regularly in several years. I know this really hurts my parent's, who attend a church that is literally 2 minutes from where I live now.

But, somehow, I want to say that I still "believe", somehow -- I just don't know "how" or "what" I believe, exactly... This is getting harder to explain the more I type... maybe more later....

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