Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Login with Facebook Sign In with Twitter

Sign In Apply for Membership

Categories

In this Discussion

Tagged

Did you know you can access the forums on your mobile? Simply go to http://forums.theooze.com
TIP: Don't forget to "tag" your posts when you create them.

Top Posters

some text
Welcome back to TheOOZE Forum!
An Inconvenient Mirror
  • SephSeph February 2012
    Posts: 5,487
    Rob Bell spells out painfully and simply the “problem” (as far as I'm concerned, the real good news) with Christianity – that of an unconditional grace on page 11:

    “And that question raises another question. If the messge of Jesus is that God is offering the free gift of eternal life through him – a gift we cannot earn by our own efforts, works, or good dees – and all we hav to do is accept and confess and believe, aren't those verbs?

    And aren't verbs actions?

    Accepting, confessing, believing – those are things we do.

    Does that mean, then, that going to heaven is dependent on something I do?

    How is any of that grace?
    How is tht a gift?
    How is that good news?

    Isn't that what Christians have always claimed set their religion apart – that is wasn't, in the end, a religion at all – that you don't have to do anything, because God has already done it through Jesus?”



    Ultimately, this only points out that we have a simple choice.

    Either Christianity has always been flawed and little more than just another religion not really worth keeping.

    Or that what we have today is a hijacked corruption of what its founder intended.

    There's no doubt that this book has and is causing a lot of rumbling and controversy in church circles. Neither option is acceptable to the church... and neither can simply be written off.

    I say good! Looks good on 'em.

    ...but my “position” shouldn't be a surprising one. After all, as I've written and made mention before, I've “moved beyond” Christianity. Let them wring their hands and worry and grumble and conspire.

    If they truly loved what they say they do, then they would follow it.

    My God, mirrors are inconvenient things!

    Syncretism is akin to wringing the truth out of ten thousand lies

    The Woven
    The Symbiot; a novella

    "It seems in some circles, thinking is heretical"
    ringnut
  • AdrieneBAdrieneB February 2012
    Posts: 3
    I think evangelicalism HAS hijacked the founder's original intention! But with the good intention of communicating "good news" to a very different culture than Jesus'.
    I also think Rob Bell is provoking a very good discussion about what it is all about. To evangelical/reformed/modern christians, being a christian is all about "believing the truth" so you can "go to heaven."

    But also, Christianity has, and always will be, flawed. Because its a human thhing (whether you call it a religion or a relationship or whatever) and humans are flawed.

    I truly love what i say i do (Jesus), but i don't follow him (or what he says) all that well. Hopefully that doesnt mean the entire thing should be scrapped.


    I haven't been around the ooze for a while, but I am back and I missed you!
  • SephSeph February 2012
    Posts: 5,487
    Hey!! Adriene!!

    It has been some time!
    I hope we find you and yours well.
    It's nice to hear from you again, and great that you've returned to TheOoze!!
    :)
    Syncretism is akin to wringing the truth out of ten thousand lies

    The Woven
    The Symbiot; a novella

    "It seems in some circles, thinking is heretical"
    ringnut
  • ringnutringnut February 2012
    Posts: 1,668
    Hi Adrienne....missed you too!
    'Never underestimate what god can do with really shitty materials.' Robin V
  • MarvinMarvin February 2012
    Posts: 236
    Accepting, confessing, believing are things that we do. But all human beings intake information through their senses and built an understanding of some kind or another based on that those perceptions. We accept some things and discard other things. It is a matter of theoria and praxis; What we understand and what we say and do based on that understanding.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • ringnutringnut February 2012
    Posts: 1,668
    I am reminded of when my husband first came to faith with all the joy and enthusiasm of a new convert. He read the gospels with fresh eyes and cut through my lifetime of churchy dodging of the hard teachingsof Jesus. Want to know what Jesus asks of us? Ask someone who's never read the bible to read the gospels and explain it to you!
    'Never underestimate what god can do with really shitty materials.' Robin V
  • MarvinMarvin February 2012
    Posts: 236
    You raise an interesting point ringnut. Who can judge whether the emperor is naked or not? There is the old story about the child in the crowd at the parade, who pointed out that the emperor was naked when the others in the crowd were unaware of it. That reminds of something interesting that happen to me personally a few months ago. I happened to be on main st. when the annual Christmas parade was getting underway so I stopped and watched it. When one float in particular passed by there was somewhat of a commotion in the crowd. The float was almost entirely pink colored and I didn't recognize what the theme was, but the others in the crowd apparently did. I didn't realize what the commotion was about until I got on the topix site for my local community. The point is that people have perceptual sets and mental sets that interfere with what they are able to perceive and classify in their minds.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • MarvinMarvin February 2012
    Posts: 236
    There is a dynamic relation between theoria and praxis so that speaking and doing enhances understanding and the understanding enhances our behavior. Accepting, confessing and believing may not get you to heaven, but it promotes growth in the right direction.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • MarvinMarvin February 2012
    Posts: 236
    Since I happen to be on this line of thought, I remember a word puzzle that someone showed that grammer school students can solve faster than college students. You have probably heard it before, but it is so neat that it is worth repeating. There is a perfect answer to it. I spend three days thinking about it and could not come up with the solution.


    What is greater than God, More evil than the devil
    The poor have it, the rich need it
    and if you eat it, it will kill you.
    To the Things Themselves

    The Humility that comes from others having faith in you

    http://gamnot27.wordpress.com/
  • ringnutringnut February 2012
    Posts: 1,668
    I remember that one! I needed someone to answer it for me too.
    'Never underestimate what god can do with really shitty materials.' Robin V