i love how this discussion is shaping up. addai, what are some good resources (books, web sites) that discuss african christianity?
pastorpfunk, the only thing i would implore people to have as they enter into multi-cultural ministry is to have thick skins. we're bound to say the wrong things (inadvertantly) as we get to know each other. if we're going to have tough conversations, we have to be willing to hear one another.
(sorry if i'm repeating myself)
check out the new look of www.MauriceBroaddus.com
Message #220990 - This was a reply to message #220595
mayrussian
V.I.P. Total Posts: 645
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Wednesday August 24, 2005 10:31 PM
Addai,
What about your Russian brothers and sisters? Just wondering. Are they considered merely an extension of the Byzantine Orthodox?
Resurrection. . . is the mysterious, utterly deep and real, stunning-the-surrounding-world metamorphosis which, from a narrow circle of transient history, brings forth gospel events in a measure that is visible from any point of the globe and from any century. --Alexander Men
Message #221099 - This was a reply to message #219585
mayrussian
V.I.P. Total Posts: 645
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Wednesday August 24, 2005 10:45 PM
Hey, Marc
I'm a big fan of IVCF. URBANA 96 was a significant time in my journey. I'm in campus ministry, too, in Russia, serving with CCC.
I actually heard of this site over a year ago from my friend 'tammy', but didn't actually take a lot of time on it until she decided to publish two poems I had written on the site. Then I thought, "Oh boy, where is my stuff being printed?" I got sucked in by the eclectic conversation.
I would not necessarily call myself emergent, but I'm a recovering Pharisee who's in the continual process of learning. I like a lot of what the 'emergent' folks are saying, because it's serving as a big fat wake-up call to a lot of people. On the other hand, it can be a big pendulum swing, but I enjoy 'listening' to what people have to say about God's Word and Jesus and themselves.
I'm learning and growing here...prime example, this thread. Isn't Addai's info on the Ethiopian history and church fascinating? I'm ashamed to say I didn't know half of it before.
Resurrection. . . is the mysterious, utterly deep and real, stunning-the-surrounding-world metamorphosis which, from a narrow circle of transient history, brings forth gospel events in a measure that is visible from any point of the globe and from any century. --Alexander Men
Message #221101 - This was a reply to message #220339
Addai
Walks With God Total Posts: 12093
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Thursday August 25, 2005 7:25 AM
I haven't read any indepth hard cover books. But I do read a lot of online stuff. And have even covered a little recently on my blog. Ethiopian chant, holy places etc.
If you want to read more I would lots of key word searches. Besides the obvious ones, like Ethiopian Orthodox, more specialized ones like Aksum (the ancient ethiopian kingdom), Lalibella, Tewahedo, and so forth, should give you all kinds of info.
And of course some of these new sites, like Wikipedia are great sources. That not only have good info, but all their links to related topics are very, very, handy.
Every time the government tries to organize the economy, the only thing that stays organized is crime.
thepeoplescube
Message #221136 - This was a reply to message #220990
Addai
Walks With God Total Posts: 12093
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Thursday August 25, 2005 7:43 AM
my dad is actually Czechoslovak. And is a Lutheran. I converted to Orthodoxy slowly starting just before turning age 30 into my mid 30s.
The Byzantines, or "Eastern Orthodox" are actually a different Communion all together.
I am part of the Coptic church, which is in Communion with the Ethiopian, Syrian, Armenian, Indian, and Eritrean Churches. These Churches are called "Oriental Orthodox", to try to distinguish them from the other ones. Which is confusing, since Eastern and Oriental are synonmyms.
Anyway these churches are Non-Chalcedonian, they did not accept the Counsel of Chalcedon back in 451. Some of them, like my Church didn't do so because of idealogical reasons. Pope Cyril of Alexandria thought it was reinstating Nestorianism. While the Armenian church I think was a little more blaise. They didn't take part due to the distance and not thinking it was a necessary counsel (And were branded as heretics later for that).
Anyway its the issue of Chalcedon that seperates my Church from the Byzantines, and of course after that one they have had three other ones. But Chalcedon is a big issue. Both because of things to it that they see as nestorian, dividing the nature of the humanity and divinity of Christ. But I think much more so because of intense perspecution that happened. Where the Alexandrians gave thanks when the Moslems conquered them (Which booted out the Byzantines after a 100 year reign of terror that mirrored the Spanish Inquisition, and Catholic crusades against the Cathars, Albigensians etc.).
Anyway we do have an awful lot in common with the Byzantines enough to warrant re-unification talks etc. But there is some tough history to deal with as well.
Every time the government tries to organize the economy, the only thing that stays organized is crime.
thepeoplescube
Message #221139 - This was a reply to message #221099
Addai
Walks With God Total Posts: 12093
OrthodoxChristianity.net
Thursday August 25, 2005 10:06 AM
Oh I almost forgot. If you are really interested in Coptic, Ethiopian, Oriental Orthodoxy, and how they compare and relate to Eastern Orthodoxy.
Then you might want to look at "OrthodoxChristianity.net". It's a discussion board to talk about Eastern & Oriental Orthodoxy, as well as how it relates to Catholicism, Protestantism etc.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/
Every time the government tries to organize the economy, the only thing that stays organized is crime.
thepeoplescube
Message #221176 - This was a reply to message #221139
mayrussian
V.I.P. Total Posts: 645
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Friday August 26, 2005 10:09 AM
Yeah, Orthodoxy is groovy that way....much in common, even over the centuries.
Let me restate my question more clearly:
Are the Russian Orthodox considered just a branch of Byzantine (Eastern) Orthodox? I just looked through a simple history of Byzantium and Russia, and did indeed find that in 988 when Russia accepted Orthodoxy as it's official religion, it was Byzantine Orthodoxy that they were so enamoured by (the beauty of the worship and sacraments, not to mention the smells and bells and icons)....so, does that make them a part of Eastern Orthodoxy, even though they have most certainly acquired their own 'flavor' (architecture comes to mind, among other things), if you will, over the centuries.
To the thread bearer: I apologize for this hijack of your very wonderful thread.
Resurrection. . . is the mysterious, utterly deep and real, stunning-the-surrounding-world metamorphosis which, from a narrow circle of transient history, brings forth gospel events in a measure that is visible from any point of the globe and from any century. --Alexander Men
Message #221466 - This was a reply to message #221139
Addai
Walks With God Total Posts: 12093
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Friday August 26, 2005 10:41 AM
Yes the Russians are part of the Big eastern Orthodox Communion. Like the Greeks, Serbs, Raphaels' Antiochians, etc.
They however have some of their own thing going on. While some of their tradition is unique to themselves sometimes in very controversial ways (deemed heretical to some). And since they are so big in comparison to other EO Churches, I've heard it rumored on some issues (like perhaps concerning the controversial "toll houses" a sort of purgatory like view of the aftermath), that one of their Patriarchs or higher up ones said to the affect. That their were our brand of Orthodoxy, and the other EO has to understand that (basically a kind of its our way or the highway kind of statement).
Of course the friend that told me this, is good at fuzzing up the details. I would like to read the actual statment myself. He's good at making some things sound much worse than they really are. Because he doesn't like groups like this I think.
Every time the government tries to organize the economy, the only thing that stays organized is crime.
thepeoplescube
Message #221476 - This was a reply to message #221466
love4theword
Walks on Water Total Posts: 13676
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Friday August 26, 2005 12:50 PM
I'd be curious as to why you say 'The stretch only happens one way'? Could you share your experiences of this?
Seraphim
"We generally find it easier to understand what is complex; what is simple is too demanding"
-Father Hans Urs Von Balthasar
Message #221564 - This was a reply to message #220152
marcdav
Lurker Total Posts: 6
RE: Black People in the Conversation
Friday August 26, 2005 3:39 PM
What I mean is that if you go into a church that is made up largely of one particular cultural group (which would be the majority of our churches) it is the person(s) who find themselves in the minority who are doing all of the stretching. Those in the majority don't have to stretch because everything is pretty much set up for them. This can go either way mind you, e.g., a white person could come to a BLACK church and try hard to "fit in", whereas the BLACK folk who already attend don't feel the need to make the stretch because they are well within their comfort zones. And Obviously the reverse is true if you switch up the scenario.
In terms of my own experience, I have experienced white people "trying" too hard to make me feel comfortalbe which of course yielded the exact opposite result. On two separate occasions I had white ushers follow me to my seet and continute to talk to me, when you could tell that they were abandoning their post. I was really put off by both occasions.
Converserly, I had a white friend who was never properly welcomed at the BLACK church she used to attend. So it does go both ways.
www.branchinthevine.blogspot.com
Message #221667 - This was a reply to message #221564
my dad is actually Czechoslovak. And is a Lutheran. I converted to Orthodoxy slowly starting just before turning age 30 into my mid 30s.